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January 11, 2008

Tenth Circuit rejects CVRA claim in shooting case

Though I have not yet seen a copy of any opinion, the Salt Lake Tribune is reporting here that the Tenth Circuit today ruled that "the parents of a woman killed in the Trolley Square massacre cannot speak at the sentencing of a man who illegally sold a handgun to the shooter."  Here is more on a Crime Victims' Rights Act case that I find fascinating (and discussed here and here earlier this week):

A three-judge panel at the Denver-based court described the case as "difficult." However, the trio said, U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball in Salt Lake City was not "clearly wrong" in his conclusion that Vanessa Quinn was not a victim of Mackenzie Glade Hunter's illegal sale of a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson to Sulejman Talovic, who used the gun to kill her about eight months later.

The designation under the federal Crime Victims' Rights Act (CVRA) would have allowed Sue and Ken Antrobus of Cincinnati, as representatives of their daughter, to urge Kimball to impose a stiff punishment at Hunter's sentencing on Monday. They want Hunter to spend 99 months behind bars for the sale, which was illegal because Talovic was a 17-year-old minor at the time.

Paul Cassell, a University of Utah law professor who represents the Antrobuses, said the ruling was disappointing. He pointed out that other courts in different cases have differed on what standards to apply in looking at CVRA matters. "The 10th Circuit applied the strictest possible standard of review to the Antrobuses' claim, differing from the holdings of the federal appeals courts in New York and California," Cassell said. "Sadly, it appears that the Antrobuses would have won if their case had been filed in New York or California. I intend to ask the full 10th Circuit or the U.S. Supreme Court to review this case and bring the law in this Circuit into conformity with the law of the other circuits."...

Although he joined in the unanimous decision, 10th Circuit Judge Timothy Tymkovich wrote that he believed Kimball and prosecutors erred in not allowing the Ambruses to have access to some of the evidence that could show that Talovic's crime was a "reasonably foreseeable result of the illegal gun sale."

In addition to flagging a notable circuit split, Paul Cassell's comments here raise some interesting statutory interpretation and fed court issues.  As I noted in this prior post, the provisions of the CVRA, 18 U.S.C. § 3771(d)(3), that gave the Antrobuses authority to seek mandamus in the Tenth Circuit does not obvious provide direct authority for seeking cert.  And since the Antrobuses are technically not parties to the underlying criminal litigation, their standing for pursuing relief in the Supreme Court is unclear (and yet may soon be litigated).  Where are Hart or Wechsler when I really need them?

UPDATE:  Thanks to Professor Paul Cassell, I can now provide the Tenth Circuit Antrobus ruling for downloading below.

Download antrobus_circuit_ruling.pdf

Here also is a summary and comment from Prof. Cassell:

The ruling held that the Antrobuses had not shown an "extraordinary situation" justifying appellate court review.  In doing so, the Tenth Circuit rejected earlier rulings from the Second Circuit and Ninth Circuit that give crime victims' the right to ordinary appellate review.

Professor Cassell also criticized the broader implications of the ruling today: "Unfortunately, the Tenth Circuit today has continued the sad legacy in this country of making crime victims' second-class citizens in the criminal justice process.  The Circuit refused to give crime victims the ordinary appellate review that other litigants receive."

January 11, 2008 at 03:33 PM | Permalink


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Tracked on Jan 11, 2008 6:38:48 PM


Seems to me that the 10th Cir. didn't "refuse[] to give crime victims the ordinary appellate review that other litigants receive," but rather Congress choose to do so (i.e. by requiring mandamus petitions rather than merely a direct appeal).

Posted by: | Jan 11, 2008 7:00:05 PM

And good for Congress. Victims are not "litigants," and so do not deserve to be treated like one. They are fully represented, just as I am, by the state.

Posted by: | Jan 11, 2008 7:57:19 PM

The very thought that Cassell would act as a victim's rights advocate is ludicrous in and of itself. In one of his last actions on the bench, Cassell granted a downward departure in sentencing to a pedophile (USA v Roger Greer), based on the fact that the defendant turned over 4 discs containing thousands of images of child pornography at his office (after the FBI had already confiscated the hard drives,) while continuing to hide further evidence at his residence (thousands more images).
Although the defendant's ex wife submitted a victim impact statement detailing the extent to which the defendant (a former rape crisis center volunteer) was aware of the severity of his actions and the life long trauma imposed on victims of child pornography, Cassell appeared unaffected by the sufferring of these most innocent and helpless of victims. Instead, Cassell issued a sentence based on his apparent true passion, offender's rights.
The fact that Cassell now pretends to care about victims at all, is pure hypocracy. If he wishes to complain about losing his latest appeal for the rights of victims, he need only look in the mirror.

Posted by: annonymous | Jan 20, 2008 11:22:12 AM

who is trying to attack Roger Greer
Isnt it strange that Mr Greer has been under a horrific divorce from his ex-wife, who also had access to his computer in their home would make this statement on the stand against her husband as quoted above "Although the defendant's ex wife submitted a victim impact statement detailing the extent to which the defendant (a former rape crisis center volunteer) was aware of the severity of his actions and the life long trauma imposed on victims of child pornography"
This sounds like a personal attack by his wife nothing the less

Maybe someone should look into her actions . I have an idea
What is the dates on those files, did anyone check. Mr Greer did a great deal of traveling last year on business and vacation. Who really did put those images on their computer in their home. Doesnt it seem odd that this couple just finished getting divorced right around the same time Mr Greer was being charged and his ex wife was making the statements quoted above


Posted by: | Jan 31, 2008 12:57:38 AM

[email protected]
Gina it is hard to stay annonymous on the internet. Or don't you know this?
after doing a little more checking i see that the post on jan 20 2008 and as sited in last post was sent by no other than Rogers ex wife Gina Zhdilkov
Well what do you know . The internet is a great place to dig up real dirt. Maybe Miss Gina will get what she deserves some day for doing to others what she would not done to herself. Again I say, who really did put those files on their home computer. Only Gina knows the truth I am afraid to say

Posted by: | Jan 31, 2008 1:06:08 AM

It is truely pathetic when friends and family choose extreme denial over obvious truth.
On June 29, 2006, the Seattle Field Division of the FBI executed a search warrant at National Stock Transfer, a company then owned and operated by Roger Greer. During the course of confiscating all of Greer's computers, Greer was questioned as to "embarassing material" which might exist on hard drives. After initially lying to investigators, Greer later handed over 4 discs containing images of child pornography he had admittedly downloaded and saved. He later confessed this to his sister and sole employee, Kay Greer, who immediately assisted her brother in the immenantly necessary task of "damage control.", including advising Greer's wife to not "be too hard on Roger. He's been so depressed."

Later that same day, Greer "confessed" to his wife, that he was under investigation for conspiracy to commit securities fraud and that the FBI had confiscated discs containing child pornography which Greer had downloaded and saved "at the office." The "marriage" was immediately over. Divorce papers were proferred 5 days later after thousands of images were subsequently found on home computers as well, (with the assistance of the Utah Attorney General's Task Force on Internet Crimes against Children.)

Greer's ex wife was a victim of incest and child pornography as a child.
Greer pretended to be a victim's advocate when he met her, while secretly collecting pornographic images of little girls ages 8-12. He protected images with secret passwords and firewalls. Her daughter at the time of marriage, were 10 and 6; a truely disturbing and alarming fact. Anyone interested in accessing the truth in this matter, can access records of Greer's admission to downloading and saving child pornography on the federal government website, PACER.

Greer was ultimately convicted on the evidence he turned over to investigators of his own accord. He accessed child pornography at his office and as it turned out, he accessed child pornography at his home as well. Unfortunately, Judge Paul Cassell did not take the scope of Greer's child pornography into account at sentencing. In fact, he gave Greer "credit" for being "honest" in his confession and provision of additional discs he saved and stored at his office. Greer deserved no such "credit".

Roger Greer is a pedophile.
According to the standards of determining pedophilic attraction to children, the collection of child pornography is the strongest indicator. There is no reason to collect tens of thousands of images of child pornography, except for the obvious fact of sexual interest in children.
Our society is not going to combat the problem of child sexual exploitation as long as there are those who excuse the behavior of pedophiles.
Granted, it must be hard for friends and family to accept that a loved one is "one of those monsters". But in reality, those monsters are always related to someone. The challenge resides in doing what is right. Do you bury your head in the sand or do you say, this is unacceptable, regardless of whether this is my brother, my son, my uncle or the babysitter?
Evil exists because "good people" do nothing. I'm sure that Greer's ex wife didn't want to accept that her husband was the very kind of individual who crushed her own innocence and caused life-long pain and trauma. But when confronted with an inconvenient truth, she at least had the courage to face it. Greer and his supporters chose to resort to the ridiculous; a virtual study in the power of denial. How sad.

Since the response to Cassell's failed efforts at supporting the rights of victims has led to the comments posted above, I can only conclude and affirm that the cause of victim's rights certainly has far to go.

Posted by: annonymous | Mar 22, 2008 9:18:29 PM

mailto:[email protected]
Again , above is another post from Gina, Mr Greers ex wife, and It truly amazes me if Gina was so hurt as a young girl as she claims in all of her media press and propaganda, why would she keep putting her horrific childhood information out in the public. I am afraid if I was a woman this is the last thing I would want to keep revisiting in my mind each time I was to post this information. Also Why is Gina allowed to take care of little children in her professional work, when recently in a newspaper article she has admitted to having pyschological problems from her trauma, and has alcohol and other susbance abuse problems due to the scarring of her past. This just boggles my mind how someone with her own demons can help other children in so called similar situations. Also I have done my own diligence and I can not find any information where Gina notified any law enformecement agencies to file complaints of her so called child incest and pornography past.
What really is going on with Gina. It seems to me that maybe Gina has more mental disorders than the community realizes and such on this blog and any and all other blogs which I can find I will now make it my crusade to find the truth behind this matter. This is the third blog that I have found Gina not only driving the credibility of her ex husband in the ground but also Judge Cassell for his actions. I find this amazingly sad and rediculous. Judge Casell if you read this board from time to time I would plead to you sir to really soul search this matter and determine if in fact this case should be re-investigated further and possibly Gina should be looked at a little closer. I believe there is a potential matter of perjury pertaining to Gina due to the malicious attacks I have been personally witnessing in these blogs and in the media and that has only been initiated by Gina alone. I am not an attorny but just a third party by stander but the more I review the details of these postings things just do not seem to be adding up to me.

A concernced citizen seeking true justice

Posted by: | May 3, 2008 1:41:01 PM

Certainly, the person who posted the above comment, is "not an attorney." This is a person in extreme, pathological denial. This is the kind of person who wouold do ANYTHING to say. "NOT IN MY FAMILY."

Sadly, pedophiles come from "someone's" family. Sadly, family members are given the choice to support the victims or, the perpetrator. In this case, the choice was obviously made in support of a pedophile in our midst. Sadly, the commentator will stop at nothing to secure her own comfort.

Roger Greer is a convicted afficionado and hoarder of child pornography. His sister, Kay Galster (and former sole employee of his business,) currently owns and operates National Stock Transfer Inc. in her brother's "absence." Her interest in preserving Mr. Greer's reputation is obvious. Unfortunatly, Mr. Greer's reputation speaks for itself.

Kay Galster

You can put any spin on this matter you so choose. Fact is, your brother committed the crime and is doing an insufficient amount of time for it. You can pretend to be whatever anonymous source you choose to pretend to be. Facts are another matter.

Please continue in your pursuit of defamation in regards to your brother's ex wife. The ignorance you seek to maintain betrays you. Please feel free also, to explain your connection to Beverlee Kamerling, who has been indicted on Conspiracy to Commit Securities Fraud, which has benefited (and may continue to benefit,) you, your brother and other family members and victims.

You seek to portray yourself as a reputable business "owner."
Remember your involvement in matters which are still before the federal court in Seattle Washington. Remember that all you have to say about your brother's ex wife is hearsay and conjecture. You knownothing of his ex wife's past and nothing of her current nor past mental status. Keep up the defamation and keep it up for your own monetary gain. Your motives are obvious.

Posted by: annonymous | May 3, 2008 11:34:30 PM

Again Gina you continue to Slander your ex husband and his sisters good name

A concerned citizen

How does it feel Gina to have others looking to expose your silly games and your own demons

Watch out, we are all watching you

Posted by: | May 4, 2008 4:43:35 PM

Facts are facts. People with "good names" don't involve themselves in stock fraud schemes. People with "good names" don't go to prison for possession of child pornography (or check fraud, theft, etc.)

Watch out? More threats?

Posted by: annonymous | May 4, 2008 4:55:23 PM

"One late night in January 1997, Gina Zhdilkov set out from Los Angeles International Airport in a rental car driven by her then-husband, Roger Greer. They were going to slay, as Zhdilkov wrote in a poem afterwards, “a withered, old dragon,” to set his “captive maidens free.”

The dragon was her father, Herbert Becker, who lay unconscious in a hospital bed in Los Angeles. Zhdilkov, then 35 years old, called him a dragon because he hoarded gold coins in drawers throughout his house. A neighbor had found the 82-year-old widower collapsed in the bathroom of his house in Paso Robles in central California. His son had arranged for Becker to be transferred to a hospital near his home.

Becker had molested and raped Zhdilkov, she says, from age 3 to 13. He had told Zhdilkov if her mother ever found out about the abuse, it would kill her. When her mother died of a stroke in 1993, Zhdilkov started to remember details of her abuse. For two years from 1994, she went to therapy in Salt Lake City where she then lived. By the end of 1996, her therapist felt she was coping sufficiently with her post-traumatic stress that she could stop her sessions.

But Zhdilkov had lingering doubts as to whether she was remembering all her father had done to her. In particular, she suspected he had used her to make child porn. With her father’s collapse, she decided it was time for the truth.

“That’s my mother,” she said of one negative. “That’s me. I don’t know who that is.” They were horrific images of little girls, of teenagers, and her mother penetrated with bizarre objects. “You don’t want those images in your mind if you don’t have to have them,” Zhdilkov, now 47, says.
She took back to her therapist the images of her and items she recalled her father using to abuse her, such as a pair of handcuffs.

Her father molested her at such a young age, she said, “I repressed a lot of memories.” Instead she had nightmares and acted out in ways that today, she says, would be recognized by professionals as signs of chronic abuse. As she grew older, if memories came to her, “I would push them out so fast it was like having a remote control, click, we’re not doing that station.”

When she was 8, her father took her and her mother to an old pond sealed off with barbed wire. It was a secluded area with a rock that resembled a chair. Becker had his daughter take her clothes off. She didn’t want to do it, but her mother was there. “If my mom was there, nothing bad was going to happen,” she felt

Try as she might, though, the horror of what Greer had found in her father’s closet slowly consumed her. She couldn’t sleep without getting drunk first. She had nightmares, constantly shook, and after a year, had to give up work as a therapist for sexually abused children and their families at Valley Mental Health. She found herself spacing out into nothingness, believing she was nothing more than “nuclear fallout.” Her mother had gone through similar spells where she would abruptly sit in a chair and mentally disappear. “She was all I had, and I would try harder and say, ‘Please let me in, please let me in,’ and she was just like a zombie,” Zhdilkov says.

A year after finding the pictures, she tried to kill herself with tranquilizers and alcohol. Instead of stopping her pain from leaking “all over my house and my kids,” her suicide attempt made things “infinitely worse,” she says in a tiny voice.

After a week in a psychiatric institute and treatment for substance abuse, Zhdilkov began the long path to recovery. " quoted Gina recently in a newspaper article that she has made sure to blast all over the internet..Why?

Above are Gina's own words about her own demons and history of abuse by her dad

Gina I believe you need some serious counseling before you try to continual to destroy the lives of your ex husband and his sister.
Again I would ask Judge Cassell or any other legal agency to evaluate the mental health of Gina and her real agenda and attacks

A Concerned Citizen

Posted by: | May 4, 2008 4:57:09 PM

You don't get it. How sick.

Posted by: annonymous | May 4, 2008 6:06:46 PM

There is nothing more pathetic than what YOU have revealed yourself to be Mr/Ms "Concerned Citizen." You are obviously morally bankrupt. Otherwise, you would realize that normal people recognize pedophilia as a bad thing. Your attempts to blame the victims, simply illustrates your own mentality. Thank you for showing everyone what you are.

Posted by: annonymous | May 4, 2008 8:42:05 PM

Gina I dont understand your continual campagaign to damage your ex husband when you can take all your efforts to blanket the world with your own past

It seems to me that you have alot of issues of your own past that you should be concentrating on

Due to your continuted efforts to Drag your ex husbands name into the media and mud I have made it my campagain personally to see what else you are lying about

Concernced citizen
Justice I agree in, constant malicious attacks with lies I do not agree with is my point you just dont get it so I will continue til someone in the justice system looks at your actions more closely and then make a decision what is real and what is not

a Concerned Citize for true Justice

Posted by: | May 5, 2008 6:48:25 AM

Have fun wasting your time.

Posted by: annonymous | May 5, 2008 8:23:43 AM

Once upon a time, there was a wayfaring Internet traveler by the name of Concerned Citizen. Day and night, night and day, CC searched tirelessly and selflessly over the land of Web, in search of the perfect cause.

One day, Concerned Citizen happened upon the object of his quest. It was a story about a poor pedophile, maligned and slandered by his ex wife.

"This is it" CC gleefully proclaimed! "I will devote my life to digging up some dirt on this unfair maiden. I will sit at my computer, day and night, night and day. Be damned with crime and war and poverty and starving children in Africa. Unworthy causes all. There is an injustice to right. A self proclaimed sex offender's name hath been besmirched"!

High and low, low (very low)and high, Concerned Citizen traversed the globe. Far and wide, wide (very wide) and far, CC sought the holy grail of Ah Ha!. But lo, he found it not.

Finally, he heard a voice calling from above.

"Is that Thou my master" he asked?

"Yes indeed," the voice replyed. This is judge Cassell and this blog is about ME."

Posted by: annonymous | May 5, 2008 11:53:06 PM

This was an age of innocence and happiness.God bless you all, and God bless America !

Posted by: cheap nike shox | Nov 3, 2010 11:26:56 PM

How does it feel Gina to have others looking to expose your silly games and your own demons Watch out, we are all watching you.

Posted by: nike shox | Nov 12, 2010 3:36:24 AM

I am forwarding this latest threat to the Attorney General.

Posted by: Gina | Jan 28, 2011 4:16:56 PM

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In the body of your email, please indicate if you are a professor, student, prosecutor, defense attorney, etc. so I can gain a sense of who is reading my blog. Thank you, DAB