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October 16, 2014

Author John Grisham says "we've gone nuts with this incarceration" of child porn downloaders

One of my (many) wonderful students alerted me to this notable UK press piece reporting on an interview with famous law author John Grisham who had some interesting (and likely-to-be-controversial) comments about tough sentencing for those who download child porn.  The article is headlined "John Grisham: men who watch child porn are not all paedophiles," and here are excerpts:

America is wrongly jailing far too many people for viewing child pornography, the best-selling legal novelist John Grisham has told The Telegraph in a wide-ranging attack on the US judicial system and the country's sky-high prison rates. Mr Grisham, 59, argued America's judges had "gone crazy" over the past 30 years, locking up far too many people, from white collar criminals like the businesswoman Martha Stewart, to black teenagers on minor drugs charges and — he added — those who had viewed child porn online.

"We have prisons now filled with guys my age. Sixty-year-old white men in prison who've never harmed anybody, would never touch a child," he said in an exclusive interview to promote his latest novel Gray Mountain which is published next week.  "But they got online one night and started surfing around, probably had too much to drink or whatever, and pushed the wrong buttons, went too far and got into child porn."

The author of legal thrillers such as The Firm and A Time to Kill who has sold more than 275m books during his 25-year career, cited the case of a "good buddy from law school" who was caught up in a Canadian child porn sting operation a decade ago as an example of excessive sentencing.  "His drinking was out of control, and he went to a website. It was labelled 'sixteen year old wannabee hookers or something like that'. And it said '16-year-old girls'.  So he went there. Downloaded some stuff — it was 16 year old girls who looked 30.

"He shouldn't ’a done it.  It was stupid, but it wasn't 10-year-old boys.  He didn't touch anything.  And God, a week later there was a knock on the door: ‘FBI!’ and it was sting set up by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to catch people — sex offenders — and he went to prison for three years."

"There's so many of them now.  There's so many 'sex offenders' — that's what they're called  — that they put them in the same prison.  Like they're a bunch of perverts, or something; thousands of ’em.  We've gone nuts with this incarceration," he added in his loft-office in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Asked about the argument that viewing child pornography fuelled the industry of abuse needed to create the pictures, Mr Grisham said that current sentencing policies failed to draw a distinction between real-world abusers and those who downloaded content, accidentally or otherwise.  "I have no sympathy for real paedophiles,” he said, "God, please lock those people up.  But so many of these guys do not deserve harsh prison sentences, and that's what they're getting," adding sentencing disparities between blacks and whites was likely to be the subject of his next book.

There are currently some 2.2m people in jail in the US — or more than 750 per 100,000 population — which makes the US by far the heaviest user of prison sentences in the world. By contrast, Britain imprisons just 154 per 100,000 population.  However Mr Grisham’s remarks are likely to anger child-rights campaigners that over the past decade have successfully lobbied the US Congress to demand tougher sentences for those who access child pornography online.

Since 2004 average sentences for those who possess — but do not produce — child pornography have nearly doubled in the US, from 54 months in 2004 to 95 months in 2010, according to a 2012 report by the U.S. Sentencing Commission. However the issue of sex-offender sentencing has sparked some debate in the US legal community after it emerged that in some cases those who viewed child porn online were at risk of receiving harsher sentences than those who committed physical acts against children.

A provocative article in the libertarian magazine Reason headlined "Looking v Touching" argued last February that something was "seriously wrong with a justice system in which people who look at images of child rape can be punished more severely than people who rape children".  And in January this year the US Supreme Court was unable to resolve a debate over whether a man who viewed images of a child rape should be as liable to pay the same financial compensation to the victim as the original perpetrator of the crime.

UPDATE: As I expected, John Grisham's child porn sentencing comments has stirred controversy and he has already issued a formal apology.  This CNN story provides the basics of the early aftermath:

Those comments and the nature in which Grisham discussed the very serious issue of child pornography incited a flood of hurt, disappointed and angry reactions from fans.

"The day that you came out in an interview and said that watchers of child porn get too stiff of a penalty for it (you said 10 years was too much) makes you someone that I cannot support nor no longer want to read," a reader named Kendra Benefield Lausman shared on Grisham's Facebook page; another posted that she's taken her entire Grisham library to her "burn barrel" with the intent to set the books on fire.

"How do you think child porn is made?" a poster named John Kelly asked on Grisham's page. "Someone is still getting hurt you imbecile. I'm sad to say that I will never purchase, nor consume, one of your books ever again. I am disgusted."

After the uproar began, Grisham issued an apology.

"Anyone who harms a child for profit or pleasure, or who in any way participates in child pornography -- online or otherwise -- should be punished to the fullest extent of the law," the author said in a statement. "My comments made two days ago during an interview with the British newspaper The Telegraph were in no way intended to show sympathy for those convicted of sex crimes, especially the sexual molestation of children. I can think of nothing more despicable. I regret having made these comments, and apologize to all."

That may not be enough for some of his former followers. "You clearly said in the interview that people (like your drunk friend) who look at child porn don't deserve severe punishment," Facebook user Raylene Jolly Wheeler posted in response to Grisham. "Not sure how you can backtrack that statement."

October 16, 2014 at 10:54 AM | Permalink

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Grisham is, of course, a licensed lawyer. That means that allowances must be made for his lapses, as one might for any special ed student, law school having knocked 50 points off his intelligence.

1) Porn, including child porn, is associated with substantial drops in physical sexual assaults of real victims. True of adult porn legalization in the 1960's. True of child porn in a couple of historical natural experiments of legalization and prohibition. The last major change took place in Japan, where they just adopted American style criminal sanctions for viewing child porn. One may follow the trend of the reporting of real child sexual abuse over the next 10 years to test this effect again. In the United States, as expected, the reporting of physical child sexual abuse is climbing steadily. If I were a lawyer, I would get a lead plaintiff for an aggregate claim, and sue the federal government for negligent legislation, prohibiting downloading. This is a major factor in the rise of child sexual abuse, against real kids.

2) That means the biggest suborners of child porn production, subsidizing the recording and dissemination of horrific depictions of child sexual assaults are ... the government. First by their prohibition. That has resulted in the explosion of child porn sites to 4 million, in a recent estimate. Second, by their being the biggest down loaders of all, subsidizing what may be an unprofitable criminal syndicate business. If the Russian mob are making a lot of child porn, as subsidized by the federal government, these lawyers are enriching and empowering a military adversary of the nation. If the child porn depicts the abuse of child in India, in the 1930's, does that encourage the production of child porn?

3) No defense attorney will do this because it might deter prosecutions of productive males by the vile feminist lawyer and its male running dogs, now in 100% control of the three branches. If the feds download a lot of child porn, demand e-discovery of all prosecution work and personal computers. Refer any child porn to the FBI for investigation of the metadata, when accessed, where, etc. All defendants must hire a second lawyer. A lawyer malpractice specialist to daily terrorize the defense lawyer into fulfilling his duty of a zealous defense.

4) The Free Press Clause of the First Amendment is a two sided coin. One protects the expression of ideas. The other protects the reception of ideas. Do I have a Free Press right to watch the beheading of a hostage by ISIS on Youtube or on their web site? Because I have watched a lawless murder, am I suborning it? Should I have to pay the estate? If the answer is, no, under the First Amendment, why should I be imprisoned and have to compensate for watching the recording of child sexual abuse?

Posted by: Supremacy Claus | Oct 16, 2014 12:25:23 PM

5) Something I learned on this blog. The rarity of the death penalty makes it arbitrary and violates the Eighth Amendment. I do not remember the citation where that argument was made (Furman?). Cheeky reasoning. The abolitionists make a penalty rare, then argue rarity violates the constitution. OK, but that is settled law. If there are millions of child porn sites, and millions of downloaders, then even the current number of defendants, a tiny fraction of the total, may violate a Supreme Court decision.

Posted by: Supremacy Claus | Oct 16, 2014 12:34:56 PM

Grisham has since apologized and walked back his prior statements.

Posted by: Res ipsa | Oct 16, 2014 5:17:56 PM

A typical liberal comment: "But they got online one night and started surfing around, probably had too much to drink or whatever, and pushed the wrong buttons, went too far and got into child porn." No self control no sense of right or wrong...disgusting...3 years wasnt enough.

Posted by: DeanO | Oct 16, 2014 8:31:11 PM

Here is my reply to the outrage.

Why would a down loader get a harsher penalty than a child rapist? You do not know by now? Because the point is to go after the assets of productive males, and not to protect innocent children. Why were the rapist/murderers of Megan and Jessica still alive to take these little girls? Because they had the protection of the feminist lawyer. Here from the sex offender registry(The word "warning" has a giant red font:

Welcome to the Pennsylvania State Police Megan's Law Website

WARNING

Any person who uses the information contained herein to threaten, intimidate, or harass the registrant or their family, or who otherwise misuses this information, may be subject to criminal prosecution or civil liability.

Click on the appropriate button below to indicate if you understand and accept the information contained on this entire page and agree to abide by the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.


Here are the results of the work of the feminist Lawyer since the passage of 18 U.S. Code § 2251 in 1990, an unmitigated disaster for the children of our nation:

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

Posted by: Supremacy Claus | Oct 16, 2014 11:09:08 PM

He's not backtracking. He's making a very fine lawyerly distinction. He's saying that he thinks /viewing/ child porn is OK but that /participating/ in child porn is not OK. This is a fine distinction because, for the most part, it's not possible to view without participating. But I can think of scenarios where the distinction is possible--for example, if person A happens to walk by person B and while shoulder surfing happens to see the child porn person B is looking at. In that case viewing the child porn would be incidental.

Regardless, he now looks weak. He could have been seen as sticking his neck out for a oppressed minority but now he looks like a waffler. Open foot, insert mouth.

Posted by: Daniel | Oct 17, 2014 1:06:28 AM

"... it's not possible to view without participating."

That is the argument to justify 18 U.S. Code § 2251.

What if I watch the ISIS recording of a beheading?

What if the child porn depiction was recorded in India, in 1928?

What if the recording was made by the participants and sexted?

What if the participants are all physically sexually mature, but are 16, and provided false ID, as what's her name did, including a spread in Playboy, I think. Traci Lords worked all over before her age was discovered. She pleased millions of viewers, and made good money for herself. Any problem there? If capable of producing a false ID, who is exploiting who?

Posted by: Supremacy Claus | Oct 17, 2014 2:26:21 AM

Grisham is right, of course. And of course, he is not strong enough to say so.

Here is a good defense of his statements: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/16/in-defense-of-john-grisham/

The sentences we give to most crimes in the U.S. are too long. I pray that it is the children of people who want these long sentences that we are locking up. That is who we need to target.

P.S. We continue to see that the Sex Offender Registries are not actually for "public safety", "protecting children", or any of those other lies. All families that are listed on a Registry should go out of their way this weekend and spend a lot of time around people who have no idea that they are Registered. It's the moral, American thing to do.

Posted by: FRegistryTerrorists | Oct 17, 2014 1:24:11 PM

Somehow I doubt the book burners actually have his books.

Posted by: George | Oct 17, 2014 2:48:01 PM

There will always be Trolls.

Posted by: Book38 | Oct 17, 2014 5:50:38 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/culture/2014/10/16/3580561/everything-wrong-with-john-grishams-defense-of-old-guys-who-look-at-child-pornography/

Coming from "Think Progress" dot org no less.

Typical and predictable of society to pounce on a subject this controversial that goes against their own hypocritical moral code. Anything that attacks the puritanical underpinnings of Christianity is dealt with swiftly with the fake bandwagon outrage, tag-teaming and pilling on.

Grisham actually did more harm with his comments than good and reinforced the publics' position of this devisive topic. Notice how the same "outrage" was displayed about homosexuality 20 years ago, now it just "meh" whatever.

Posted by: Lance Mitaro | Oct 17, 2014 7:15:02 PM

Russell Banks said similar things in the wake of his "Lost Memory of Skin", although not evoking images of 60-year-old men watching teens cavorting about. But since his books don't sell millions of copies in airports, they went unnoticed.

Posted by: Bill K | Oct 17, 2014 8:15:24 PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11171230/John-Grisham-paedophile-row-sex-offenders-are-not-good-guys.html

OK. This story is getting stupider by the minute. It turns out the the friend Girsham defend doesn't want the defense and thinks he deseverved his sentence.

Why do I smell a set-up here?

Posted by: Daniel | Oct 17, 2014 8:30:19 PM

If John Grisham were smart, being from the UK, he would state how child porn can mean "a naked picture of a 17 year who took the photo of himself and didn't share it with anyone", a florida supreme court has upheld convictions of this. Even non-nude photos in a "suggestive pose" can constitute child porn. Attempts to reform the statue have been mostly unsucessful.

Posted by: Alex | Oct 18, 2014 3:17:38 AM

How about a pop-quiz on Grisham novels for the hysterical, mouth-breathing morons vowing never AGAIN to "consume" one of his books.

Seems one ought at least to have read a Grisham novel ...or a book of any kind for that matter... before threatening to refrain from consuming more books.

Our zeal to punish makes us silly, treacherous little people

Posted by: John K | Oct 18, 2014 11:12:07 AM

"cited the case of a "good buddy from law school"

It always amazes me that people will actually "fall" hook, line and sinker for a perps description (s) of their crime (s). Especially a sex offender. Sex offenders are notorious liars and have entire websites to tutor them what to say when "asked" about their crimes. They are methodical and devious and have HUGE Networks dedicated to "circumventing" either their restrictions and or the TRUE Nature of their crimes. Sex offenders are the ultimate Minimizers. Never ever teake an offenders version of their conviction on face value-EVER. Mr. Chrisham didnt do an about face on his feelings, he did it under "public pressure". NAMBLA aka any other name have recruited sex offenders, their wives and family members to daily propagandize the general public on any forum associated with this topic to MINIMIZE the true dangers these people pose. WAR (womenagainstregistry) RSOL-any state, SOSEN, U.S.A FAIR are all subsidaries of NAMBLA's efforts to abolish the registry and minimize the repercussions of sex crimes to that of a parking infraction. Unfortunately many of the Lawyers on this blog are duped into it also under the guise of "exerting their best defense" mantra..

Posted by: Valerie Parkhurst | Nov 23, 2014 9:05:26 AM

Prior to the Internet, a large child pornography collection would have been indicative of an enthusiast of long-standing, somebody who devoted much time, effort and money to amassing their collection, but the Internet has allowed individuals to download huge amounts of material in a very short space of time like in hours for FREE. In other words, a collection of 5,000 images reflects the speed and quality of an individual's Internet connection rather than the effort they expended to painstakingly build a collection over years possibly decades.

The law was intended to save children; However the software used only goes after some Person to person (P2P) filesharer who happens to download intentionally or not images of the harm done by someone else and doesn't rescue one child. Johan Schlüter, head of the Danish Anti-Piracy Group remarked, "Child pornography is great," and he said enthusiastically. "Politicians do not understand file sharing, but they understand child pornography, and they want to filter that to score points with the public. Once we get them to filter child pornography, we can get them to extend the block to file sharing. We must filter the Internet to win over online file sharing. But politicians don’t understand that file sharing is bad, and this is a problem for us. Therefore, we must associate file sharing with child pornography. Because that’s something the politicians understand, and something they want to filter off the Internet. Child pornography is an issue they understand.” Schlüter grinned broadly. ” FOLLOW THE MONEY

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100427/1437179198.shtml

Child pornography is the ultimate indictment where constitutional rights are eliminated and NO defense is allowed; it is being used for everything and every purpose and everyone SHUTS UP. Amy Adler, Associate Professor at the New York University School of Law states, "Everything becomes CP in the eyes of the law, clothed children, coy children, children in settings where children are found, perhaps children themselves become pornographic".

Only one empirical study to date, follows the effects of a new law in the Czech Republic which allowed pornography to a society previously having forbidden it allowed researchers to monitor the changes in sex associated criminal activity that followed the change. As discovered in all other nations in which the occurrence has recently been studied, rape and other sex crimes did not increase. Of specific note is that this nation, like Denmark and Japan, had a prolonged period during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and, like those other nations, confirmed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.

(http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-011-9871-9)

The notion that there is a vast child porn industry, organized by some ruthless mafia, is simply a myth. Throughout the Western world, and increasingly beyond, we find barriers being set up between adults and children. In the name of protecting innocence we are enforcing emotional and physical separation of age classes in a sort of generational apartheid that sees fathers afraid to hug their children too affectionately and teachers' unions advising that teachers should keep a minimum gap of three feet between themselves and their pupils. The barriers are invisible but strong, enforced by a climate of fear as people are becoming terrified of being identified as a pedophile.

One of the most fascinating and insidious aspects of Child Pornography is the public antipathy and fanfare concerning it. Even though Child Pornography story commenter's have never seen the images in question they act as if they have; commenter's then project their cognitive dissonance into what they write. People are led to believe the media stories are posited as fact even though the media has never seen the images either and this is a major problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what Child Porn is and what Child Porn law states when the public doesn't know what Child Porn is or what the government thinks Child Porn law says.

Thousands are in PRISON based on non empirical research without any peer review. That research is given as FACT to legislators who then pass laws in the legislature based on reports from academics that are skillful at making what they say and write believable even though what the say and write do not check out in terms of FACTS or REALITY. Along with their proponents they are cloistered in universities infecting those who are in positions of power, and prestige; their toxin has filtered down into society itself. The terrifying power of their fanatical ideologies have stealthily spread outward from their psychotic evil enclaves where they have become the malleus maleficarum within the mind and within culture; whose angst and antipathy is amplified in the media.

Arresting people for looking at pictures, having a thought, or just being curious is plain wrong. Thousands of people are in PRISON for NON VIOLENT crime who caused NO HARM, and have NO VICTIM but violated statutes that change consistently as though something new has been learned; something no one thought of in over two hundred years. Not one politician says anything they just pass more laws to put more people in PRISON egged on by radicals and an enclave of researchers in academia who profit from the thousands of reports they pump out every year all at the expense of the taxpayers using their contention and peoples angst about alleged harms to, "the children" to take away freedom.

“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation" Mein Kampf Hitler 1943.

Posted by: Frank Gillice BSc | Jan 18, 2015 8:59:15 AM

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